Curse

KonohaFlash · Aug 25, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

now now, let's sit down and think this one through.. let's see how 'balanced' they've made spirits into..

cons:

1.) Horrendous recharge time
2.) Easily killed (4-6 secs)
3.) Easily interruptible 5 second cast time
4.) Only one of each type allowed within a spirit AOE

pros:

1.) umm...
2.) ...errmm...
3.) ah!!! ..oh wait nvm...
4.) huge AOE

cmon ANET, do you really consider spirits balanced this way?
it's practically unusable now.. i mean.. look at it this way, spirits are like mass enchants/hexes that affect everyone within range of the spirits. so like enchants/hexes, spirits can be removed.

enchants and hexes can be removed by only a handful of spells (readily available to only 3 of the existing professions) with horrible recharge times now that NR is also gonna be nerfed. alot of these enchants and hexes are also easily spammable. now look at spirits... how are they removed? heck you don't even need to expend energy to kill em. and every profession can take em out even with only normal attacks in fairly good time. 2 warriors or rangers can dispatch spirits in 2-3 attacks each. and there's always the option of just moving out of range of the spirits. the bad part is, there's no way to maintain these 'wide area enchants/hexes' (aka spirits) given their long casting and recharge times now that they can no longer exist within range of each other(same type of course)

now i have a few things in mind.. why not make spirits a bit tougher now that there wont be multiple copies of the same spirit in a given area? boost their health even for a bit? even better, why not add something like this for example for all spirits:

Edge of Extinction
Create a level 1-8 Spirit. For creatures within its range, whenever any creature dies, Edge of Extinction deals 14-43 damage to all nearby creatures of the same type. Has 12-36% chance to 'evade' incoming attacks and magical projectiles This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds

the point here is to force attackers to actually use energy to destroy the spirit if they want to remove the spirit quickly as is the case when removing hexes and enchants - you expend energy. although it's still possible to do so using normal attacks

c h a v e z · Aug 25, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

Uh oh time to use a real build.

curserwigger · Aug 25, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Let the whining begin...wait it already has I see.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 25, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Oh wait, you actually have to use some skill now? O-M-G....

Artemis Bladewing · Aug 25, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

YAY THEY BALANCED IT AND NOW ALL THOSE WHO WATED TO GET THEM NERFED CREEP OUT AND FLAME ANET FOR BALANCING STUFF(as usual)

I love this community, they call for a nerf, and flame it in the same sentence.

Gwenhywar · Aug 25, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

woah, all those teams that were winning because they planted a kazillion of spirits around the althar, blocking the path, will now have to actually THINK of a STRATEGY to win?

ouch, that hurts

Zeru · Aug 25, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Oh noes you have to learn how to place spirits smartly rather than just throwing them left and right without care.

rii · Aug 25, 2005, 03:57 PM // 15:57

*sigh*

spirits were never meant to be spammed. remember when they gave you 5%dp?

thats how much they werent meant to be spammed.

spirit spam was a complete abuse of the game, and has been rightfully nerfed. tbh, you only need about three spirits (qz, fertile, maybe frozen) and thats it. anything else is a very specific build. as has been said, they will start being used with tact and some forthought, which is surprisingly how the game is meant to be played.

if there are problems with spirits being killed (i think this mod is fairly reasonable), it isnt hard to get some ranger with oath shot and your spirits and tell him to get on with it. rangers have a couple of roles that are simple and dont require elites, namely qz debil shot (energy denial). If i use this, then either the rest of the build is incend arrows, cg, savage shot, tg, and a res, or its oath shot and some useful spirits.

KonohaFlash · Aug 25, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

lol, how bout actually using your heads to shoot down the suggestion eh? oh and all your flames mean nothing.. coz i've never run a spirit spamming build roflmao

it's a perfectly honest suggestion to give rangers a break and not nerf the hell out of everything that's left in the ranger skill set that hasn't been nerfed

really, what's wrong with making spirits a bit tougher than they are? clearly, there was no hint whatsoever in my post to bring back spamming

the suggestion also comes close to the original design for spirits - in that we're not supposed to be able to attack them. it's kinda like meeting that design halfway... but there's no need to bring unnatural signet back.. we can still attack them but they'll have some evasion against direct attack since they're supposed to be ethereal in form anyway

Artemis Bladewing · Aug 25, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

so why do you caomplain if it dosnt affect you?

spitfie · Aug 25, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Anyone have a competitive guild, (One Of The Good Ones) That win GVG alot and need a good Experienced GWars PVP player. Let me know please especially before the big event tomorrow

DarkAynjil · Aug 25, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Stop crying and start shooting arrows again.
oops! I mean: gee, you'll actually have rangers on teams without spirits again,
Oh no! People will actually want a Necro in their party again. Damn!
People MIGHT actually consider a Water Ele... yeah, we better hope they un-nerf the spirits... <sarcasm>

octaviancmb · Aug 25, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I agree, spirits probably need to be made slightly more durable now. They're weak little guys. I'm sure they'll improve spirit armor/hp given time. I even like your idea of adding evasion into spirits as a general change. (They are *spirits* after all, incorporeal beings, they should be able to evade several modes of attack.)

However, they've hardly been nerfed into unusability. NR: it's still very, VERY good (for example).

Posive change. Thanks ANET.
cmb

Phades · Aug 25, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

What would be really sad is if all the people defending NR 2.0 was the only team build that they ran with, opposed to the people pointing out how much of the game the 1 skill countered or denied, especially when combined with oath shot. Then people would get presumptous and saying trying to coutner the method of application of spirits was valid, when it required nearly a entire build devoted to stopping, or rather, slowing down 2 skills out of the build. Then while trying to fight against it, risking losing out a number of other skills that dont fit under the bubble. Conversly they could just make a mirror of the build and ignore a large section of the game and assume everything is fine or intended.

Of course this would also assume the same people had a very selective memory and didnt think to a time before NR removed all enchantments and a different build ruled the roost. There was not any kind of uproar on the same level NR produced regarding the healing balls, as many people who were getting spiked out at the time were complaining about air elementalists instead. Even the people that used the balls admitted there was a problem with enchantments and removal, but they were also at the forefront of those who stated NR was out of line.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 25, 2005, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Wow I'm surprised at the amount of lame responses in this thread. I thought the community on this board was better than that...

Anyway, just to defend myself from accusations, I have never run spirit spamming builds in PVP. I've faced them in PVP and I've used them in PVE.

And I have to say while spamming spirits was probably not a valid tactic, they've overnerfed spirits now. They nerfed every single aspect people were complaining about (except the blocking)

The single biggest blow was making spirits not affect each other. Why was that necessary if it was already made so that only one type of spirit can exist? Why nerf Fertile Season if it no longers affect other spirits anyway? Now that you can't combine spirit effects, it takes a lot of strategy and variety out of using spirits.

Mass spamming spirits was bad but this was overkill.

Eonwe · Aug 25, 2005, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by c h a v e z

Uh oh time to use a real build.

Michael ftw.

TheGreatBoo · Aug 25, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I'm sick of hearing how terrible rangers are. I have a kickass ranger and the only spirit I drop is favorable winds. Maybe if half the people that have a ranger and say they suck stop using power shot and start bringing better buffs they'd realize how powerful they could be. Spirit spamming was nerfed and rightly so. Gain some skill and stop relying on 30 spirits to do the work for you.

sidepocket13 · Aug 25, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

i get a kick out of EVERYONE saying they never ran a spirit spam build.......has anyone ever admited it? i havent, but i dont pvp and i play a monk. :P

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 25, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidepocket13

i get a kick out of EVERYONE saying they never ran a spirit spam build.......has anyone ever admited it? i havent, but i dont pvp and i play a monk. :P

Eh? There were plenty of people who acknowledged their use of spirit spamming. The guild Kansas City Hotsteppers/skippers/whatever was one of them. Sorry my memory is shot.

TheGreatBoo · Aug 25, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidepocket13

i get a kick out of EVERYONE saying they never ran a spirit spam build.......has anyone ever admited it? i havent, but i dont pvp and i play a monk. :P

It's hard to run a spirit spam build outside of the hoh haha. I can't stand playing tombs. And my old guild was more interested in trying out my own and other individuals build ideas.

Edit: Also forgot to add that my rangers only level 15 haha. I'm an innocent one haha.